Ascension X: War of Shadows Cup 4th Round Due 5/2/17

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Re: Ascension X: War of Shadows Cup 2nd Round Due 4/18/17

Postby _tudor_ » Wed Apr 19, 2017 4:21 pm

BenDajo and I are still playing. If we are too late with the results, I could take this loss, since Bendajo did send an invite earlier on and I didn't respond immediately.

@BenDajo, if you are available, we can play some live games, I am always up for that.
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Re: Ascension X: War of Shadows Cup 2nd Round Due 4/18/17

Postby _tudor_ » Fri Apr 21, 2017 12:04 pm

So. BenDajo timed out our first match and hasn't responded to my invites yet(I sent two other invites so that we could play the games simultaneously and finish them faster). Ben, are you still there?
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Re: Ascension X: War of Shadows Cup 3rd Round Due 4/25/17

Postby BenDajo » Sat Apr 22, 2017 4:19 am

Tudor-
The way I see it, I technically ought to win and advance, as I made every bonafide attempt to get this series going 6 days before the drop dead date.

I'm not holding that against you; I know everyone's busy with work and life and other things.
So to that end, I would be willing to play it out instead taking a default win, given that we start with a clean slate with the series at 0-0.

If you want to do this, let's start ASAP and finish all 3 matches by 11:59PM, Saturday 4/22/17.

Pls reply to this post ASAP and let me know what you want to do.

adrixthemadrix awaits!

GPX - jump in with any rulings or comments you may have here.
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Re: Ascension X: War of Shadows Cup 3rd Round Due 4/25/17

Postby _tudor_ » Sun Apr 23, 2017 1:06 am

Bendajo,
I don't really get why you didn't continue the game that we had started. We were already at round 10, I had some nice constructs and cards, I think my chances to win this one were quite good. Had you forfeited in round one, that would have been a different thing. So, I don't see a reason to replay the game. If this was the norm, people would just time out or forfeit any game yhat wasn't going well for them.
I had also sent the invites for the other two matches, they are still there, untouched. By now we could have been done with all three games, instead of just one time out.

The way I see it, we play these matches to compete at this game, and the player with better skills wins(or the luckier player in some cases). I wouldn't like to win by default, just because my opponent was late picking up my invite. I actually would like to just play the matches and see the results, win or lose.

I suggest we play the two games that we have left, you have two invites that have been waiting for you for a couple of days already. If we meet online, and we surely will, we play them live and we finish them today. I'll make sure to turn on the sound alert so that I know when you're doing your turn, so that we meet online.

Of course, Gpx, you have final say. Whatever you decide is fine by me.
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Re: Ascension X: War of Shadows Cup 3rd Round Due 4/25/17

Postby BenDajo » Sun Apr 23, 2017 3:25 am

Tudor-
I let the game time out for multiple reasons.

1 - GPX already set the midnight deadline on the 18th, so it was sort of pointless to continue. Remember, we're holding up the entire tournament.
2 - I work in a heavy industry environment where I literally have zero internet access for about 12 hours a day - my hands are tied so that on most weekdays, I can't play for large chunks of time. I would always check the game or play my move when I came home, but the next move wouldn't occur for hours, by which time I'm already asleep for the next day's work. I'm not a high school or college kid with copious amounts of free time.
3 - I've never had to play three games concurrently. I don't know how anyone who plays competitively would want to choose to play that way, as you'd give away the ability to maintain focus on your strategy on any given game, which would cater more towards luck than skill. Yuck. Maybe some players can handle 3 concurrent games; I can't.

You said you wouldn't want to win by a default, that you'd rather play it out, yet paradoxically, you're trying to hold me to a game one loss, simply because I timed out on it. This, after I got no response for a handful of days on the initial game invite. Couldn't I technically get to count that as a win for me?

I did try to offer a neutral solution of starting the series over from scratch, so that we could "play it out". In all my other matches, my opponents and I eventually met up and banged out the games in fairly rapid time, so it's never been an issue before. You and I simply haven't met up on common times for over a week; zero blame, it just is what it is.

Let me know what you want to do; my offer from the last post stands, or we can let GPX make a ruling.
I'm not losing sleep over a card game, but do want my actions and motivations to be understood and known.

Cheers,
BD
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Re: Ascension X: War of Shadows Cup 3rd Round Due 4/25/17

Postby _tudor_ » Sun Apr 23, 2017 3:16 pm

Let me see if I got this right. You stopped playing and timed out a game because it was passed to the "deadline hour". So, you timed out because it was too late, not because you were losing. But now, 5 days later, you suggest that we replay all 3 games. You see that you're contradicting yourself.

I could even go along with that, but I think it kinda sets a bad precedent - if you notice that you are losing, you could just stop playing, time out the game, and ask for a rematch based on <whatever reason you can find>. The only reason for a rematch should be a game bug, or something of this sort. Timing out on purpose doesn't give you a free ticket to replay a game that wasn't going your way.

I don't mind playing three games instead of the remaining two, but I don't want to encourage something that I don't consider fair. I think at this point, it is best if we play the two games(you have 2 outstanding invites) and wait for Gpx's ruling on whether we need a third game or not. I think this is common ground. Also, we don't have to play them concurrently, I understand this is your preference.

Lets finish this.

p.s. You said that you've "never had to play three games concurrently". I'm wondering though how you play the opening round? With 4 different people simultaneously?
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Re: Ascension X: War of Shadows Cup 3rd Round Due 4/25/17

Postby BenDajo » Sun Apr 23, 2017 6:21 pm

_tudor_ wrote:Let me see if I got this right. You stopped playing and timed out a game because it was passed to the "deadline hour". So, you timed out because it was too late, not because you were losing. But now, 5 days later, you suggest that we replay all 3 games. You see that you're contradicting yourself.


No. You didn't get that right.

Yes, I stopped playing.
One reason? Because our league commissioner gpxxxtreme already mandated to get it done by midnight on 4/18/17, or he'd settle it for us. Midnight on 4/18/17 came and went and we still hadn't finished one game.
Most important reason? AFTER our commissioner's deadline date, I went to work with only 8 hours left on my game timer, and so while I was at work, my turn did indeed time out.

Also keep in mind, after that first game finally started, my opponent would never play back at me for entire 7 hour chunks from the time I got home each day (maybe one move if that?), for two or three straight nights. So, after a while, one wonders, does he or she REALLY want to try and play it out, knowing that we only have a few days left due to the long starting delay, or am I simply being gamed for a timer forfeit simply due to time zone differences? I assume my opponents have notifications turned on, so they know when I've made a play and can play back at me fairly quickly, and that would clue them in that I'm online and available to throw cards - let's kill off a game right then and there, or at least a whole bunch of turns/rounds all at once. So I get no reply for my initial two invites for nearly a week, my game one timer's been dying off in 12 hour chunks, I have 8 hours to go in my first game, with about 45(!) honor/stars left to play, and that's a forfeit win you'd be happy with? And to top that off, I get accused of timing out to avoid a loss? Hmm.

And guaranteed - I'm not calling my supervisor to take off work so I can rearrange my life around my Ascension opponent's schedule. Will he or she play back at me within a reasonable amount of time each turn? It's certainly not worth burning vacation leave to find out.


_tudor_ wrote:Timing out on purpose doesn't give you a free ticket to replay a game that wasn't going your way.

I don't mind playing three games instead of the remaining two, but I don't want to encourage something that I don't consider fair.


I agree - I also don't want to encourage something that I don't consider fair either. Starting 6-7 days late, versus an opponent who wasn't very responsive for large swaths of time (at the time of this posting, you still haven't logged in and accepted the War on Shadows tournament invite on challonge.com) while I was available at nights during those remaining few days, only to potentially eat a forfeit on a game that was far from decided (45 honor/stars left to play). THAT seems very unfair against ME. Which is why I tried to offer what I thought was a neutral solution in restarting and replaying the whole series, knowing that gpxxxtreme had already stated I would advance.


_tudor_ wrote:p.s. You said that you've "never had to play three games concurrently". I'm wondering though how you play the opening round? With 4 different people simultaneously?


Yeah, that's correct, I NEVER play multiple concurrent games versus one opponent.

Four different people? Different scenario entirely.
Much easier to track, names are all different; but even then, we're only getting a few very early preliminary rounds into each game.
What tends to happen in practice, is that one of those four opponents and I eventually meet live online, and we'll bang out the whole series in under an hour, if even that long. When I focus on one opponent at a time and complete an entire game in a very short amount of time, the other opponents wait.
Most players see that their opponent is online via the green or amber light next to the opponent's name, and know they should be able to finish up a game or a series right then and there, provided both remain online for a while. Managing multiple opponents properly, one can focus on that one opponent, and then move on to the next, in a much more orderly fashion.

I don't ever send the same opponent an invite to a round 2 game when we haven't even finished round 1, and I don't ever accept invites for multiple games from the same opponent either; I wait until a specific opponent and I have finished round 1 before accepting the round 2 match.

ULTIMATELY-
This is all dead time wasted; I'm deleting the game invites.
gpxxxtreme already advanced me on to the next round against adrixthemadrix (which means I'll probably get destroyed anyway), and he probably thinks we're 10,000% stupid for not checking the challonge.com website for all this earlier. Since the brother is probably running these tournaments without pay, I'm sure he's totally over it as far as wasting more of his personal/family time on mediating this dispute. (And thanks gpx.)

See you around. If we meet up again in another tournament down the line, hopefully we'll be able to play out a series then.
BD
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Re: Ascension X: War of Shadows Cup 3rd Round Due 4/25/17

Postby _tudor_ » Sun Apr 23, 2017 6:45 pm

Some of the things you say make some sense, but you still didn't manage to convince me that you weren't running away from a fight. Good luck in the fights ahead.
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